Speed Gibson

King Banian and Michael Brodkorb had a truly great first hour on their January 27th "Final Word" program, heard 3-5 pm Saturdays on AM 1280 The Patriot and on Townhall.com. The topic was the proposed state-wide smoking ban in all bars and restaurants, starting with the first segment interview with Minnesota Rep. Dan Severson (R-14A, Sauk Rapids). His position supporting a state-wide smoking ban in bars and restaurants seems much at odds with his strong Conservative record. I have provided an abridged, edited for clarity transcript below. If you didn't know, you'd say this was someone from the Green Party talking.

What was better still was the great series of callers that filled the remainder of the hour, a live, competent, and deserved fisking of practically everything Rep. Severson said.

Hosts King and Michael did well, too, both on the interview and the dialog with the callers. This was best in show on the NARN for January 2007.

King Banian: You are a co-sponsor of a state-wide ban on smoking called the Freedom to Breathe Act of 2007. A number of our listeners call in to talk about smoking. Most of them call themselves Conservative and most of them are not in favor of a smoking ban. And yet, here you are a sponsor of it and someone who I can testify has been a very good Conservative. How do you want to put those positions together?

Dan Severson: Two years ago I signed on the bill and we had a good discussion in Commerce, although it died. I think it's a discussion that continues to need to be had. Some of the surveys and issues that came out support a smoking ban state wide. It's always been my contention that people have individual rights. As far as smokers vs. non-smokers, I wholly agree that indiviudual rights for us as Americans are paramount and the closest thing to our heart. But I come at it from the standpoint that I'm part of the eighty percent that are non-smokers and I should have a right not to breathe the air of a smoker if I'm sitting in a confined space.

King: You speak with a lot of bar owners in your district. What do they have to say about this issue to you?

Severson: They come at it from a couple of perspectives. One is their personal rights as business owners, and I understand that. There is also a general fear that this ban will decrease the number of people that come to their establishment, and I understand those fears as well. I left California in 1994 before their smoking ban was implemented and returned in 1997 afterward, frequenting the same establishments as before. There was a huge fear that this was going to cause a decrease in patronage and it simply wasn't true. It was a totally different atmosphere obviously, because you're not smelling smoke in the restaurant, you're smelling food. People were actually increasingly going out because they didn't have to contend with what goes along with a smoke filled room, whether it's triggering an asthsma attack or just being able to taste the food better.

Michael Brodkorb: Can you go through the specifics of the bill?

Severson: I've read through the bill once, but I can't quote all of the specifics. I know it's a smoking ban with no exceptions. There are exceptions for smoking parlors, for tribal american rituals, for homes, and for hotel rooms. But as for public places like restaurants and bars, smoking is banned.

Michael: What about border cities? How would this bill help or hurt them?

Severson: Wisconsin is considering the same state-wide ban, if not this year, within two years. I believe it's a movement spreading across the nation. Ten years ago we had smoking everywhere. Since then we've seen a progressive implementation of ordinances city-wide, sometimes county-wide. They've made a progressive move to say that hey, we know this is a known health hazard and while we know it's problematic, we going to take a stand and put a ban on this. What you hear now from a lot of businesses and towns is that we'll wait to see what the state does. If nothing, then we'll move forward. The time has come to create an even playing field for businesses across the state. The state line issue is going to be an issue. Again, I think when people feel the freedom to go a bar or a restaurant and know they're not going to be assaulted by second-hand smoke or the residue of the second-hand smoke, it's going to draw more people to go out those establishments in the long run.

King: The bill says that if you run a day care center in your home, and anybody smokes in that house, even when the children are not present, you have to notify the parents or guardians of the children using the day care center. That in essence turns that private home into a public building. Is that in keeping with what I think Conservative principles should be?

Severson: I'm not familiar with that portion of the bill, but these are issues we'll have an open discussion on in committee and can taylor that as needed. The issue you're running into is the Surgeon General's report last June that any amount of second hand smoke is problematic. There are consequences because it has proved to be a problem, health-wise. If you're going to a day care center, they contract to take care of your children the best way they know how. That comes into question when there's been smoking in the house. Now is it going to be a Gestapo tactic, filing lawsuits? I don't think so, but those are discussions we need to have.

King: Another provision allows cities to pass even more stringent than you bill allows, meaning you can't guarantee a level playing field after all.

Severson: That's what we have now.

King: These are two parts of this bill I have trouble with. What I'm hearing you say is that business owners need a level playing field, and that the purpose of the state bill is to create a level playing field. But you really can't as we agreed. Further, if my wife runs a day care and I have one cigar during Monday Night Football, as I read the bill she would have notify in writing every client parent or guardian that there's a smoker in the house. I just think that's kind of strange.

Severson: That's going to the extreme, but that's our society in terms of litigation. We've been pushed to that.

King: What's the evidence that a cigar smoked ten hours before any child enters the building has any effect?

Severson: I don't know.

Caller Rick: If I don't want to go into restaurant where they smoke, well then I just don't go. I'm very insulted that the State seems to think that I'm too stupid to make up my mind over these things.

Severson: This part of the process of having a healthy debate. Part of the equation is the health of the workers. We can say that they can quit that job and go work someplace else. I got an email from a former smoker who works in a restaurant who would love to see a smoking ban because she doesn't want to be around it any longer. But she doesn't have the option of quitting because there aren't that many jobs in the area. I understand the issue of individual rights and I fully support them, but there also needs to be the equal opportunity for the eighty percent to say "I don't want to breathe that second hand smoke."

King: It sounds like you're saying that you have a right until eighty percent say you don't have a right. I think that's a dangerous place for a Conservative to go.

Severson: I agree.

King: If smoking is really this bad, why not just outlaw it?

Severson: How about if we let market forces work? If we restrict it to the point where people can't go out, maybe they'll try a nicotine patch, and three weeks later they won't have an urge to smoke.

King: If eighty percent of Minnesotans want to go a place that's smoke-free, why haven't more restaurants figured out how to cater to that eighty percent?

Severson: I think they have. I think there are a lot of them going smoke-free?

King: Then why is there a need to make the others smoke-free too?

Severson: There are some making that tough decision and I applaud them for that. But there are others who are afraid of taking the plunge and getting some economic kickback for the initial portions. [Double speak for lost business I think. --SG]